Bloomberg even reported the news today.
"Lehman Drops to Eight-Year Low on Sale Speculation (Update1)
By Jeff Kearns
June 30 (Bloomberg) -- Lehman Brothers Holdings Inc. fell as much as 11 percent to an eight-year low on speculation the fourth-biggest U.S. securities firm may be sold for less than its market value, traders said.
Lehman lost $2, or 9 percent, to $20.25 as of 3:06 p.m. in New York after earlier declining to $19.81, the lowest since May 2000. Options traders increased bets that Lehman will continue its retreat. The most-active contracts were July $20 puts, which gained 66 percent to $2.13.
``We're hearing that there may be a possibility of Lehman being taken over,'' said Michael Nasto, the senior trader at U.S. Global Investors Inc., which manages $6 billion in San Antonio. ``There hasn't been any positive news on this firm for the last couple weeks and the value of the deal might not be in the best interest of Lehman shareholders.''
My Take:
The market continues to beat down the financials. Since we are very oversold at these levels, I predict we are about to see some type of "event" in this arena. Something is going down folks. Will that surprise be Lehman? Will WAMU or Indy Mac go under or be acquired? Will MBIA go belly up?
I am not sure what it is, but the daily pounding in the financials means the market is trying to tell us that something big is about to happen.
Avoid all financials. Do not try to bottom feed here. Knife catching has never been very profitable.
Housing a buy in 2010?
Nadeem from the Market Oracle thinks so:
Nadeem's prediction:
"By the end of 2008, the annual rate of house price falls should slow to about 13%. Whilst it is not possible to forecast a bottom in the US housing market at this stage of the bear market, it is possible to come to the conclusion that most of the decline in nominal house prices is now behind us on the basis of analysis of the continuing decline in real-term house prices which suggests that a stabilising US housing market during late 2009 and 2010 will mask the continuing real terms inflation adjusted fall in the housing market valuations for several more years that will in effect have the impact of eroding all of the gains since the 1989 peak and reducing the gain from the 1994 low from 131% to just 40% by the end of 2010 as the below graph illustrates.
US House Prices Forecast Summary - Nominal US House Prices are forecast to fall by 30% from the Mid 2006 peak by the end of 2010, or a further 11% on the decline of 19% to date. US house prices will continue falling in real-terms even if a low in nominal house prices is made by mid 2010."
Quick Take:
I think 30% peak to trough price drops is a little on the light side in the bubble areas. I thought this chart did a great job of showing how severe the housing bubble was in historical terms.(the black line is the housing prices).
Whats depressing here is Nadeem thinks when you include inflation, housing will lose all of its gains from the 1989 peak. That's a 0% return on a 19 year investment.
If you bought at the lows in 1994 after the last bubble busted, your equity would have dropped from a 130% gain in 2006 down to only a 40% gain by 2010 as prices continue to fall and you adjust for inflation.
So lets take a long term look at the real return on housing as an investment including inflation if you bought at the bottom in 1994. a 40% gain over 16 years comes out to about a 2.5% return on your investment which is the historical average in housing.
Getting rich in real estate is nothing but a pipe dream.
So the next time that realtor a tells you "Now is the time to buy! Prices are down!" put a sock in her mouth and tell her to call you in 2010/2011.
You may ask why does the effect of inflation have such a negative effect on your housing investment? Just think, if you own a house that on average is rising in value at 2.5% annually and inflation is running at 5-10% annually, you are essentially losing money on your house each year.
Now is not the time to get into the flipping business!!
Sit back in your rental and relax. It will be a few years until housing will be attractive to own. Please don't ever think of your house as a good investment in the future. Its a place to live. Always remember that unless you like investments that return 2.5% annually.
You can invest in a CD and beat that return.
14 comments:
Very wise words, Jeff. People need to stop thinking about housing as an 'get rich quick' investment and remember that these are boxes that we all live and sleep in. The investment mentality is much more dangerous applied to housing than stock. You can live without stock.
Listening to some of the foreclosed folks just breaks my heart. While some were undoubtedly greedy and unwise, a huge portion are just unfortunate Americans who live simple lives that are about to be destroyed.
I agree Minton
Unfortunately, many of the subprime buyers were people that never were able to afford a home before. Many were life long renters.
The speculators deserve what they got. However, the uneducated buyers that were suckered into is these loans is a tragedy.
I have no problem helping people with my tax dollars that were swindled by the realtors and sharks on Wall St.
I applaud you for your charitable use of tax dollars, which I totally support - I wish the government were so smart, but it looks like they pissed it away to help the pigmen.
The hundreds of thousands of Mr & Mrs J6P from Iowa really got screwed by the administration on this one.
Here here
I am starting to hear rumblings of rate cuts now because the economy is so weak.
If they pull that one you can kiss the dollar goodbye. $250 oil anyone?
Anything to save the pigmen. If its at the little guys expense then so be it. Its disgusting
If they cut rates again, then Ben "Barking" Bernanke should take Jim Rogers' advice: resign and close shop.
I'm actually surprised the media isn't making more noise about this - the average American is getting CRUSHED. I drove to Monterey at the weekend and I've never seen the roads so quiet. There's nobody in restaurants.
Of course, it doesn't matter since inflation excludes fuel and food - lol! What a bunch of crap those numbers are.
Minton, those compassionate words are a breath of new air in blogdom. Jeff, thanks for returning our attention to the real role of a house. I bet both of you are aware of the "Not So Big House" series of books. I had the luck of hearing the author speak last week at one of our stellar "green & sustainable" (but over-priced ...yikes!!!) colleges, Warren Wilson College. Sarah Susanka did a good job. I hope she revisits the books and addresses pricing; from what I read she studiously avoided the subject of purchase prices on all the small-but-beautiful homes photographed and discussed in her 5 books, which were released during the run-up and the price boom: 1998 thru 2005. I’ve been pushing a lot of do-gooder champions of New Urbanism, LEED certification, etc, to come clean on the so-far financial unsustainability of their do-goodism that gained traction only when every builder, rehabber, homebuyer, and commercial leaseholder had EZ access to loosely underwritten loans.
avl
All of these crooks are being forced to come clean the old fashuioned way. Through lawsuits!
Florida is now suing Countrywide for unfair business practices.
I posted the article in the forum if you want to check it out. I really think the housing fraud is being blown wide open. Lawsuits galore all over the country.
I still can't see Bank of America buying Countrywide. They face years of lawsuits and are sitting on billions of bad loans.
Countrywide threatens Bank of America's health IMO. I will be suprised if that deal closes.
Lisa Madigan is the AG for my former home state, Illinois, and she was the 1st to file a suit against CFC. CalculatedRisk blog is pooh-poohing her suit....but I think Lisa did the right thing.
I'm still deciphering the weekend's original Fortis story that appeared in German. English-language carry below (will post in forum too)
From CNBC today:
Fortis made cash call in face of expected U.S. 'meltdown' - chairman
AFX
| 30 Jun 2008 | 03:06 AM ET
AMSTERDAM (Thomson Financial) - Expectations at Fortis that the U.S. markets are on the verge of "meltdown" were behind the Benelux bank's decision last week to launch a sweeping recapitalisation programme, said chairman Maurice Lippens.
"We were saved at the last minute. Things in the U.S. are going far worse that people think," Lippens said in an interview with De Telegraaf.
Forecasting bankrupties among U.S. banks amid declining credit cover, and also citing Citigroup and General Motors as blue chip companies impacted by the turmoil, he was quoted as saying: "The U.S. is heading for complete meltdown." Fortis last week surprised shareholders with recapitalisation measures worth a total of 8.3 billion euros, including a 1.5 billion euro capital hike.
tf.TFN-Europe_newsdesk@thomsonreuters.com jms COPYRIGHT Copyright Thomson Financial News Limited 2008. All rights reserved.
URL: http://www.cnbc.com/id/25451427/for/cnbc/
Nice charts on all 6 multi-month Bear Runs buried within the larger 4-year Crash of 1929-1933.
Jeff, if there's a repeat of these sawtooths, you'll be hearing claims of 'bottoming' and a "Rebounding Baby-Bull Market' crescendo-ing in sing-song fashion on CNBC & WSJ at least 6 times over the next 4 years. Aint that something to look forward to.
http://www.creditwritedowns.com/2008/06/chart-of-day-dow-1928-1932.html
Heads-up:
The American Bankers Association’s Consumer Credit Delinquency Bulletin for 2008 Q1 should be out in 4-7 days. It covers the 8 major categories of non-revolving consumer debt. I thought this data might be good 'forward-looking data, but...it takes them a full quarter to release the data.
http://www.aba.com/Press+Room/PR_ConsumerBanking_issue.htm
They pulled their 2007 Q4 report, I think. Here’s an excerpt from 2007 Q3:
• Home equity loan delinquencies increased to 2.28 percent from 1.99 percent;
• Property improvement loan delinquencies increased to 1.60 percent from 1.46 percent;
• Indirect auto loan delinquencies increased to 2.86 percent from 2.77 percent;
• Direct auto loan delinquencies increased to 1.81 percent from 1.69 percent;
• Personal loan delinquencies increased to 2.29 percent from 2.05 percent;
• Mobile home loan delinquencies increased to 2.87 percent from 2.61 percent;
• Marine loan delinquencies increased to 1.30 percent from 1.23 percent;
• Recreational vehicle loan delinquencies decreased to 0.89 percent from 0.94 percent
avl
Great stuff. Great data. there will be many bear market rallies followed by lowere lows.
I should have put the Fortis in my blog today. That is very big news.
I heard a different take on the crash warnings from a friend on Wall St.
Many banks that are in stronger capital postions are making stock market crash calls in order to attempt to pick weaker banks up on the cheap.
I think we are in deep trouble in our banking system but I never underestimate the greed of the pigmen.
Many financials are in dire straits however there are also pigmen trying to make a profit by claiming doom and gloom.
I am still very bearish but its always nice to hear what the pigmen in strong cash positions are thinking.
I think Lisa did the right thing.The investment mentality is much more dangerous applied to housing than stock. You can live without stock.
My personal
I totally agree.
Any suit against these slimeballs is a good one no matter what the evidence.
Countrywide, realtors, appraisers, and Wall St. need to be held accountable for destroying this economy and the more legal action I see the better.
I will never pooh pooh any legal action against this fraud because it raises awareness.
The more lawsuits the better IMO. This fraud will destroy people financially for years and years.
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